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Serious Therianthropy Discussion Chat 04-Mar-19
After 04-Mar-19 09:11 PM
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 09:11 PM
Alright, it is now 8:11 Central Time. Tonight we will be discussing what other theriotypes you considered and why they were, ultimately rejected; and to what extent mood impacts your instincts--do different moods bring out different instincts, particularly ones you wouldn't expect?
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 09:12 PM
Rules are fairly simple. No bigotry, keep on topic and please avoid the use of emoticons, and please don't make extraordinary empirical claims like p-shifting, alien abduction, etc (not that I expect that to be a problem). I will be moderating the channel once we begin.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 09:13 PM
I will be voicing bots tonight; you have two minutes after I announce the question to say you want voice, and I expect people using the bots to not talk out of turn during the moderated portion of the chat.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 09:13 PM
Each voiced participant will have five minutes to answer. After that, there will be a twenty minute period of open discussion.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:14 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> Interested in speaking.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:14 PM
<woof075> I’m interested as well in speaking
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 09:14 PM
Also I.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 09:15 PM
First question is "What other theriotypes did you consider, and why did you ultimately reject them?"
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 09:15 PM
Voice Request.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:15 PM
<woof075> Voice request
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 09:17 PM
Naia, your turn.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 09:17 PM
finishing typing (notepad)
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 09:18 PM
If this could take a bit, I could switch to someone who's ready now.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 09:18 PM
yes; that is fine!
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 09:19 PM
Woof075, it's your turn.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:22 PM
<woof075> I’d considered many Theriotypes since the beginning of my journey in Therianthropy, mostly along the lines of canines as I’d always remembered having a clear connection to them/association. The first canine species I considered and ultimately rejected was the Newfoundland. I’d fallen in love with their looks and background (they’re European dogs if I’m not mistaken, and I’m ethnically European myself) though I came to realize I
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:22 PM
was only considering them because I found them fascinating. I didnâ€t feel as if I was identifying as one, rather just having an admiration for them and, at the time being, did not understand what shifts were or how they were supposed to ‘feelâ€, so I had very little to go off of.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:23 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> Voice Request (since my request I posted was not accepted)
(Kinnect #STDC) <Keira Kinover> 04-Mar-19 09:23 PM
Voice Request...?
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 09:24 PM
<It was my intention to give you voice; albeit last since you hadn't specifically requested it after I posted the question.>
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 09:25 PM
Naia, it's your turn.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 09:25 PM
I originally believed I was an arctic wolf and quickly identified as one after awakening. I was about twelve years old at the time, and the catalyst that got me introduced to the therianthropy community I hadn't done much research but I was pretty certain I was a wolf of some kind, so I essentially took the lazy way out and assumed I must be an arctic wolf like kiba. Total wolf-a-boo right? It took some time after this until it didn't start to fit. My dreamshifts didn't match this form, nor did self image. While I understand dream shifts aren't an end all be all or even considered as evidence of much at all, It's rather difficult to narrow down exactly what type of wolf one is, so I am relying mainly on what "feels" right.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 09:25 PM
l it didn’t start to fit. My dreamshifts didn’t match this form, nor did self image. While I understand dream shifts aren’t an end all be all or even considered as evidence of much at all, It’s rather difficult to narrow down exactly what type of wolf one is, so I am relying mainly on what “feels” right.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 09:26 PM
also, Kiera Kinover joined late and can see the backlogs, requests to be added to voice list.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Keira Kinover> 04-Mar-19 09:26 PM
Aaah
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 09:26 PM
I'll add them. Current que is Azi_MexyWolf, then Keira Kinover.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 09:27 PM
Wait, sorry, Ulfrvif is between you two.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 09:28 PM
Naia, are you done?
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 09:29 PM
yes
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 09:30 PM
Azi_MexyWolf, it's your turn. Also, I would appreciate it if from now on, when people answered, once they were done talking they would state that they were. This would improve flow.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:31 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> Wolf Dog Grey Wolf Arctic Wolf Red Wolf Mexican Wolf
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:31 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> Done.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Ulfrvif> 04-Mar-19 09:32 PM
During my awakening, my phantom and mental shifts were strong and easily distinguishable as wolf to me. A few years later, I had one phantom shift of large paws. I took a few days and decided it was a polar bear shift. I never had another bear shift after that, and decided it was just a cameo shift.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Ulfrvif> 04-Mar-19 09:32 PM
I think it was associated with possibly being killed by a polar bear in a past life.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Ulfrvif> 04-Mar-19 09:33 PM
Then I went a few more years without anything making me question wolf or multiple theriosides. Until I was practising some shamanic work. In a journey I briefly saw an ancient looking fish in the dark.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Ulfrvif> 04-Mar-19 09:33 PM
I looked into a few different deep sea fish, mainly oar fish and lancetfish. However, I concluded that it was only related to the shamanic work. These mysterious fish might have a lesson or information to provide, and an important relationship in that way, but they are not an identity.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Ulfrvif> 04-Mar-19 09:33 PM
Within the last year or two, I've kind of questioned being wolf again. The fish called to me because they are ancient species. Wolves are also an old species, but sometimes I feel like there is something even older about me.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Ulfrvif> 04-Mar-19 09:36 PM
Sometimes I also feel like maybe I should be slightly larger than our wolves of today. But still canine like. I have looked into extinct animals. Amphicyonidae or bear dogs are closely related to canines and some could be very large. However, there is not a lot of information about them and only a few artistic drawings of what they might look like.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Ulfrvif> 04-Mar-19 09:37 PM
I keep returning to wolf as it is still most familiar to me. I feel a strong draw to maned wolves, but I think this is again a more shamanic and spirit guide related association.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 09:38 PM
Alright, five minutes are up.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Ulfrvif> 04-Mar-19 09:39 PM
I have can easily mimic horses and other animals, but this is just because I grew up around them and had them as pets. So, I have always only considered that I have one therioside and identified as wolf. And I'm comfortable with that.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Ulfrvif> 04-Mar-19 09:39 PM
Finished.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 09:40 PM
Keira, it's your turn.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 09:41 PM
@Veramyne
(Kinnect #STDC) <Keira Kinover> 04-Mar-19 09:44 PM
Alright, well, when I first awakened, I had gained memories of a previous life, that had nothing to do with Therians. Since then I struggled to understand and come to terms with my mind and how it works, however the past year I've found myself returning to my love and passion for wolves. As I began to get into it, I started to feel canine-like, more in-tune with them than I had when I was a child. I still wonder if perhaps I am a Therian, or if I'm just being a fan.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Keira_Kinover> 04-Mar-19 09:46 PM
I am done.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 09:46 PM
Floor is now open.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:46 PM
<Traveller> From about the age of 12 through 16, I latched onto wolf as a theriotype, and then considered for a while that fox might be in there alongside it. There were parts of both that seemed to fit, but not completely, and having multiple sides felt entirely wrong: When I got mental or phantom shifts, they always seemed to be of the same critter, not two different kinds depending on the day.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:47 PM
<Traveller> Why they didn't fit... the body size and shape didn't work, and when researching, things like their prey of choice didn't match. But mostly it just always felt lacking in a way I couldn't put my finger on. It was less that anything specific felt wrong, and more that nothing in particular felt right.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:47 PM
<Traveller> I tried the null hypothesis for a while: after ordering my teenage life around therianthropy, try assuming I'm not therian, and see how well that fit. I still got mental shifts pretty strongly even when I worked to convince myself I wasn't therian, so I had to reject that too. In the process though, I discovered that my rare dream shifts weren't relevant to my therian identity. Sometimes they're just dreams.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:47 PM
<Traveller> I only really figured out what was lacking when I realized that desert climate played a huge part: that's the thing I was missing without knowing what it was. I'd been ignoring coyote initially because I associated it too strongly with trickster mythology--something that didn't really match--but it turned out that (for me) mythology was never all that relevant to an actual animal side.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:47 PM
<Traveller> (whew, sorry for paste spam)
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 09:48 PM
Don't worry about it.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:49 PM
<Traveller> Ulfrvif: I'm curious, you say you feel like there is something older about you: what does that feel like? Like, ancient by what scale of comparison? I've met others who say the same but I'm not sure what it means
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 09:50 PM
Also, I'm curious: What about dire wolves?
(Mibbit #STDC) <Ulfrvif> 04-Mar-19 09:52 PM
Feeling in the wrong time is hard to explain. Maybe it's just the general not fitting in. I briefly considered dire wolves, but didn't spark anything.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:53 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> I fully awakened May 3rd 2015. I was previously awakened on a subconscious level since I was 14, in 1998. However fears, panic attacks, and a bout of PTSD led to the subconscious suppression of my internal identity and instincts/urges for 18 years, fears were admitting I "was an animal", and "Feared the "beast within". I studied the Mexican Wolf's diet, habitats, size and shape as I felt the physical features and shape via phantom
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:53 PM
limbs, such as ears, muzzle, k9 (teeth), nose, tail, hand and feet paws (pads). Instincts to run and hide from people when I am in the near by woods and fields, and urges for their diet, such as chasing deer, and strong desire for raw meat, etc. I also studied their (Mexican wolf) off spring processes as my past life memory was that of myself as a Mexican Wolf with a mate and 3 pups.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:54 PM
<Traveller> Ulf: Like, the other species around you don't seem to match the 'memories' (whether they're memory or instinct)?
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:54 PM
<coffeebear> Coffeebear from TG here... already caught up with the chat... sitting and listening at the moment
(Mibbit #STDC) <Ulfrvif> 04-Mar-19 09:57 PM
Not so much in that way. Other species and surroundings don't seem out of place.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:57 PM
<Traveller> and just as an aside, Naia...I'm pretty sure my original latching onto wolf came from Elfquest. It doesn't negate the validity of people who actually do introspect and research and identify as wolf long term... but yeah, twelve year olds who jump headfirst into wolf because of that year's popular media have always been around and always will be
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:57 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> I also have an odd connection mentally and thus physically with my wolf pup plushie. That when I hold it. I wolf shift, then my body gets calm all over. I get tired as well.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 09:57 PM
yeah, unfortunately
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 09:58 PM
I still identify as wolf .. just differently
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:59 PM
<Traveller> eh, if there's anything this chat tells us, it's that getting it wrong at first is pretty darn common too, so I can't begrudge kids for it
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 09:59 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> I feared I was a werewolf for years. Between 2009-2011 I could not read the word or consume any media with them in it.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 10:01 PM
Yeah, I was actually one of the people who identified as a wolf as well. Don't recall exactly why, but I'm pretty sure, as you say, it was in part due to popular media.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:03 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> I also believe in reincarnation, and am a Christian, but very open minded.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 10:03 PM
I don't mean to be rude... but how does that work?
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:04 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> I believe God made me who I am. That is a person with the soul of a wolf long passed away.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 10:05 PM
So you don't conform to any specific sect of Christianity, you mean? A lot would not be very tolerant to the belief of reincarnation.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 10:05 PM
Open discussion has a couple minutes left, and this is beginning to get a little off-topic, so let's wrap it up. I will be around after this is officially over if you want to talk about it here then.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:06 PM
<LycanTheory> My apologies if I'm speaking out of line. I initially identified as a wolf for several decades until I began to speak regularly with biologists and folks that worked with rehabilitating wolfdog hybrids. It was then that I realized a good part of my canine experience wasn't wolf as I don't experience the neophobia, anxiety or many of the other "wild" traits.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:07 PM
<LycanTheory> This is one of the primary things that lead me to explore shepherd dog, namely the behaviours and traits of working line breeds and livestock guardians.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 10:07 PM
You're not, but we're about to start voice requests for the second question, which is "To what extent does mood impact your instincts? Do different moods bring out different instincts, particularly ones you wouldn't expect?"
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:07 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> @Naia Ōkami Reincarnation is a common belief. It's one I hold strong to and tie to my past life memories. Ending there.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:08 PM
<Traveller> Requesting voice.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 10:08 PM
Okay. Sorry if I seemed confrontational, I was genuinely curious as to how the two beliefs mixed. Also ended.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:08 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> Request Voice.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 10:08 PM
Requesting voice.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 10:09 PM
Setting channel to moderated. Que is Traveller, Azi_MexyWolf, and Naia.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 10:09 PM
Traveller, you're up.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:11 PM
<Traveller> Most moods don't impact my therianthropy at all. At least, they don't change the way I experience it. Depression - the chemical kind that numbs your experiences - does tend to restrain it, keep the mental shifts from coming.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:11 PM
<Traveller> Usually my emotions don't push instincts to the fore, but trying to actively nudge shifts into happening is a useful way to deal with high emotions or stress sometimes.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:12 PM
<Traveller> More generally, I'd say that instincts impact my mood instead of the other way around. Shifts get triggered by terrain or climate, and that improves my mood or hurts it accordingly; stuff like that. (Done)
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 10:13 PM
Azi_MexyWolf, it's your turn.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:13 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> Yes. When friends I talk to voice are upset, or in real life, I recoil, run and hide. I whimper, and take on a wolf stance physically. When I am anxious I start to growl, as the wolf gets defensive of the state my human body/mind is in.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:15 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> I growl at critters I see on TV if the wolf views them as a threat. Like big cats, etc.... I can trigger a "snap shift" by vividly imagining a werewolf or human in my room about to attack me or my wolf pup plushie.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 10:18 PM
Naia, your turn.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 10:18 PM
not ready; can go last.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 10:20 PM
You're actually the last on the list.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 10:21 PM
Ah. You can skip me then, I apologize. I suddenly got caught up with a bit of an issue IRL.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 10:22 PM
It's fine. A minute, I'm talking to Vyt, as they might want voice.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 10:24 PM
They do.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Vyt> 04-Mar-19 10:26 PM
Hi everyone (and thank you). I'm probably going to be brief because it's late here. On mood and instincts: In my experience, I don't have the same reactions to anger that I've heard from many others. I don't want to growl or snarl or bite when angry.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Vyt> 04-Mar-19 10:28 PM
When I think of moods in connection to my animality, it usually goes in the reverse- I feel most doglike when relaxed or comfortable- when curled up in bed, for example. That will bring out shifts, as well as more dog like reactions- pawing, vocalizing instead of speaking.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Vyt> 04-Mar-19 10:29 PM
I really want to be pet during these moods, but is being pet an instinct? I wouldn't think so in the usual meaning of the term, but I think it's a fairly deep desire for a domestic dog. So, in other words, a very relaxed mood will bring out canine-specific socializing instincts. Most of my other moods I experience in very human ways.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 10:30 PM
Naia, your turn.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 10:35 PM
Floor is now open.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:37 PM
<Traveller> I wanted to check if people on the bots are seeing the same things. I'm a little suspicious that not entire messages are getting through
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:37 PM
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:38 PM
<Traveller> (does that show up as an image link over in IRC-land?)
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 10:39 PM
so I do see the issue
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:39 PM
<Traveller> More on topic: Azi, since you said your mood does impact your instincts - have you found any ways to keep that from happening?
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:40 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> I will growl/snarl at some humans who have harmed my dogs, or if dogs/other critters cause the wolf within to get defensive. I am a little Lobo so I stay this manner.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 10:40 PM
The kinnect bridge stops relaying a message after it reaches a certain length for fear it will go over the max length allowed by IRC servers, but the logic to split it into two messages doesn't seem to work.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 10:40 PM
@Traveller
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:41 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> @Traveller Sorry. No not much. Just alot of prayer. And focusing on being human.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:41 PM
<Traveller> another example pic - Azi on our side sent a multi-line message, screenshot here. Did it go through for people on IRC?
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:41 PM
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:41 PM
<Traveller> nods at Azi
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:41 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> You're welcome Travellers.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 10:42 PM
Yes, we just didn't get line breaks.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:42 PM
<Traveller> Okay, cool, thanks!
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 10:43 PM
Azi's message appears fine on Kinnect.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 10:43 PM
I've noticed the issue of how depression deadens instinct (and everything else, really), too. Whether trying to suppress instinct too much caused depression or it's the other way around I'm not entirely sure; my autobiographical memory isn't the best.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 10:44 PM
Kinnect -> IRC seems to have lost a slight bit of messages for the reason I mentioned; I'll have the bridge debugged by next chat :couplekiss_mm:
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 10:44 PM
and I sent the wrong emoji ;p
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:45 PM
<Traveller> Huh. Interesting. I haven't really tried to actively suppress it to the point where it triggers any kind of depression - but, when I ignore the therian side enough, that is definitely not a good feeling. But it's hard to pin that down as "ignoring the therian side", because it's not really distinct. Getting out in the desert is soothing, being stuck in rainville is depressing, but I'm not sure I'd pin that as specifically therian.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Vyt> 04-Mar-19 10:48 PM
I'm not sure if it's an "instinct" but I get very antsy and irritable when idle, instead of relaxing. I had a day off work today and was getting cabin fever by the end of the day instead of taking it like a break.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 10:48 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> I tried to suppress, or better yet deny the fears and realities. I didn't know what I was when I was acting all critter like. So before 2015 I call that my unaware state.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Vyt> 04-Mar-19 10:49 PM
Only reason I would connect it to therianthropy is 1) the idea of dogs needing to be walked regularly in general and 2) border collies specifically getting destructive and unhealthy if not actively engaged
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 10:54 PM
Well, there was other crap going on at that point too, Traveller. Might have been the combination of factors. Anyway, I have noticed that while instinct gets deadened when depressed... it's still /there/, kind of. I don't have much of the urge to chase things, but I find doing so still feels right--as right as doing most human stuff.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 10:59 PM
It does kind of indicate that there's not as much of a difference between our therian sides and our human sides, I think. Since our drives to do what we think of as "therian" get affected as much as our drives to do what we think of as "human," it suggests to me that they are the result of similar processes.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Ulfrvif> 04-Mar-19 11:01 PM
It's hard for me to tell which is which now that I'm older. Emotions had more of an effect on shifts when I was a teen and first awakening.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:01 PM
<Traveller> I suspect that it may be a different experience for some, but yeah - I consider myself a psychological therian, so there isn't much of a difference.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:01 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> The wolf drives me to walk, when I don't want to. So it's not a uniform process.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 11:02 PM
Which makes me wonder if that's evidence that our "instincts" are largely socialized. Fundamental drives--eat, drink, that kind of stuff--doesn't seem to get affected by depression like that. At least in me. Some of the stuff I associate with therianthropy, like hissing or snarling in response to a threat or pain, aren't as affected either.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Vyt> 04-Mar-19 11:03 PM
Agreed with Ullfrvif- I haven't identified as a therian for very long compared to some, but its gotten increasingly difficult to draw any kind of line between the two 'sides' and I don't get shifts as much as I did when first awakened
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:03 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> I feel the wolf desires, instincts, urges, etc are different from human ones. If not why be therian in the first place.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 11:04 PM
I mean, I have some traits, desires, etc that I can dissern as "wolf" but they mesh well with my overall personality.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Vyt> 04-Mar-19 11:04 PM
^ same
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 11:05 PM
also.. having two theriotypes, the line blurs even more... it's just all meshed parts of me at this point
(Mibbit #STDC) <Vyt> 04-Mar-19 11:05 PM
A lot of what I consider "dog" could also be described as "extreme extraversion, + some sensory stuff"
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:05 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> I have the one theriotype. That is more than plenty.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 11:06 PM
yes ... my sensory stuff could be because I'm HFA.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:06 PM
<Traveller> One thing I used to think about was the coyote side as a layer above the superego. I have my human wants, but the coyote side tells me what I should want, tells me the ways that I should reprogram myself in order to be truly happy. But that's not an interpretation I've explored in a long time, now.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:06 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> What Traveller said!
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:08 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> I'm a vegetarian as human. But the wolf wants to chase, and kill wild deer, I as a human, don't. But if I see deer, bam. I'm off to chase.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Vyt> 04-Mar-19 11:08 PM
oh I kind of agree with that! like... I think that's where a distinction between human and animal is possible, if anywhere. It is universal to want some form of social contact (even if very little), or food, or stimulation. It's the way I want these things, and the way they feel most right, where the canine stuff comes in
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 11:09 PM
I can perform 'wolfish' behavior in socially acceptable ways. primary example: my job simulates hunting
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:09 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> The wolf within fears people. Does all it can to keep me away from people. The urge to run and hide.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:10 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> Only thing that simulates hunting for me, is hunting.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 11:10 PM
I do hunt... humans (not a serial killer ;p)
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:10 PM
<Traveller> I've had times where the coyote side insists that the feeling of hunger is actually desirable, which goes against all reasonable instinct. But it both pushes closer to being in touch with your body, listening to what it tells you... and also is good for staying healthy, to let yourself feel that before eating.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Vyt> 04-Mar-19 11:11 PM
for example: physical contact is generally desirable across all species, but I want it in a "doggish" way: like head pats, scratches behind the ear, etc. that are not how humans typically express such needs.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:11 PM
<Traveller> And of course "insists" isn't like a conversation, just...there's that nudge of my mental state, a vague sense of what goals would be most fulfilling to pursue.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Vyt> 04-Mar-19 11:13 PM
(all right, I gotta go, good night all)
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:13 PM
<Traveller> What do you do, Naia?
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:14 PM
<Traveller> Goodnight Vyt!
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 11:14 PM
Retail Asset Protection.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:14 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> I see raw deer and get hungry, I want it to the point I pull myself away. I am wolf inside, I am man inside. Which has the drivers seat, and who is in the backseat is dependent on my suppression/prepared mindset, and people around me.
(Kinnect #STDC) <Naia> 04-Mar-19 11:14 PM
I apprehend shoplifters and dishonest employees :P
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:15 PM
<Traveller> nods at Azi
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:16 PM
<Traveller> That sounds...frustrating My coyote side rarely tells me "run after that rabbit", usually it's more like "scramble up that hill, the view is better"
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:17 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> I guess that's all. I'm just a little Lobo trying to live as a wolf in a human body aside a human mind. Therianthropy has been serious for me since I found out what I was. Alot is still fear. It is what it is I guess.
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 11:17 PM
I'll be signing off in about fifteen minutes, so I'd suggest beginning to wrap up. It's late, and I've got to get up early tomorrow.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:17 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> Mine is chase until out of sight. I had a mental shift on my roof. Not the place to have one. So....
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:17 PM
<coffeebear> Thanks, Citrakayah
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:18 PM
<Azi_MexyWolf> Thanks Citrakayah.
(Mibbit #STDC) <TherianGuide> 04-Mar-19 11:18 PM
<Traveller> Thank you for running it Citrakayah!
(Mibbit #STDC) <Citrakayah> 04-Mar-19 11:18 PM
No problem! Thank you all for attending.