Beliefs on the subject of death | Kinmunity: Otherkin Community

Beliefs on the subject of death

Discussion in 'Religion & Spirituality' started by Amaris Matris, Aug 29, 2016.

  1. Amaris Matris

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    Hello anyone and everyone who sees this!

    Today I was thinking about life and death and what death is like. I know quite a lot of people believe that they go to some iteration of an afterlife, or that you re-incarnate or anything else after they die. Personally, I don't know and so I hold no beliefs about it.

    I imagine that dying is like being anaesthatised and then not waking up again. It doesn't sound too bad to me personally, I'm not afraid of dying and simply cease to exist.

    What I want to know from people in this thread is:
    1. What do you believe happens after you die (if you do believe in anything or you just don't believe in anything like me)?
    And
    2. Why do you think you believe this or why do you think thi idea appeals to you?

    For the second question I'm thinking more on the lines of:
    Do you think it is because you don't like the idea of not existing anymore?
    Or
    Do you think that it is because you don't like the idea of there being no overruling justice in the universe? (In the case of a 'Heaven Hell' situation)

    I'd be very interested in your responses and I'm keen to discuss things with you in a completely non-toxic environment.

    (BTW I'm not, in any capacity, considering any form of suicide if you got that vibe from the intro)
     
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  2. Seraphyna

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    I don't believe anything happens to us after we die...it's lights out and that's it. I don't believe in spiritual things or a higher power, just science/nature. It's not that the idea appeals to me, it would be more comforting to think that we get to live life after life or that we go somewhere else after we die...but that's just what makes the most logical sense in my head. I don't think it's a depressing concept either. I think the idea that this life is all we have makes it more meaningful because this is your chance to live life to the fullest...because I believe that you don't get another one.
     
  3. Charias

    Charias Wandering Wolf
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    I believe quite firmly in reincarnation, because of my past life memories and because it just seems to make the most sense to me.

    Back before I awakened and started remembering stuff from previous lives, I was an atheist and didn't think anything came after death - which I always found to be a scary concept, if I'm honest. I tried to convince myself to believe in some sort of afterlife because the idea of just... ceasing to exist was terrifying to me. But I could never actually force myself to believe in anything. I could tell myself that there was nothing to be scared of because I'd reincarnate, or I'd be a ghost, or something like that., but I never genuinely believed that was true.

    But now? It's a little weird when I realise most people can't remember past lives. It's become such a normal thing for me at this point. I remember dying once very clearly - I could describe in detail exactly how it felt to pass away. And I have vague memories of at least one other death, too. Both lives lived as normal, mundane things. One where I was a wolf, the other where I was human.

    When I think about it, it just makes so much more sense to me that we'd reincarnate. I don't really understand why the scientific/atheist default here is to assume that our consciousness just poofs into the void when we die. That seems too... wasteful. Energy can't be destroyed, right? We don't know exactly what it is that makes us conscious, but if it's any kind of energy, it's got to go somewhere. Why not another body?

    I don't think "souls" are immortal. They probably dissipate after a while, split apart, change. And I don't think most of them can carry much in the way of information (maybe some can't carry any, hence why a lot of people don't remember past lives). I don't think there's any meaning behind it - I don't see it as a deep, spiritual thing, or evidence of some higher power. I just look at it as yet another meaningless process in our strange, meaningless world. It just makes the most sense to me that consciousness, whatever it is, would be recycled.

    Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I'm much happier believing that my memories are real and that there's more than oblivion waiting for me on the other side.
     
  4. TimelordVictorious

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    I think we probably die and that's that. Stories of heaven/hell type scenarios just sound to me like a good way to manipulate people in following a religion. I know it's a comforting thought to many people, but it just sounds fake to me. Anyway, no one's ever come back from the dead with proof of whatever happens after, so there's no way to be sure. I'm considering the possibility of reincarnation, mostly because a lot of things in nature happen in cycles (think about seasons, night/day, evaporation/rain, etc.). So it would make sense if life/death worked the same way, assuming souls are a thing that exist as well.

    So maybe we die and nothing happens. It's not something that scares me. We're all gonna die. Not much point fretting about it. And life isn't exactly a walk in the park either, so...
     
  5. MechanicJasper

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    So, I'm about to get super spiritual in this thing. But I believe in a form of reincarnation. I believe after a vessel is unusable (say, an organic body dies or an android body shuts down, in my case), the soul leaves that vessel and seeks out a new one, continuing life in that vessel. I think, a vessel can die, but a being cannot, as a being is how I describe the soul that continues to live on in it's next vessel after it's previous ceases functioning.

    I had recycled a lot of beliefs before this, I suppose. Mainly I switched between believing that nothing happened after death, and our spirits just disappear from existence as our body rots underground, and believing that independent spirits roamed in the form of ghosts after their vessels died but didn't seek out new ones. When I started understanding my past life memories, I had to kind of accept that I believe a spirit can seek out a new vessel and continue on, similar to the second of my previous beliefs.
     
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  6. Amaris Matris

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    These are some really interesting discussions and thanks for replying!

    So do you believe that everyone reincarnates and therefore people who believe in an afterlife are wrong? Or do you believe that only some people reincarnate and some people do something else?

    So is this energy that goes into another body just the energy that makes the consciousness? Or is it the energy from the rest of the body as well. Why wouldn't the energy go into the dirt and rock or the atmosphere?

    I also believe that it is a way of manipulating, but I'm very confident that it was originally thought of because people wanted there to be some justice that we don't enforce ourselves.

    So, because of your use of the word "vessel", do you think of your body as simply a husk that you will eventually leave? Do you have no emotional attachment to your body then?
     
  7. MechanicJasper

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    Well, not quite. Maybe for this vessel, I don't feel much attachment due to gender and species dysphoria as well as mental health issues, but that's another story. However, my previous vessel was one I was very attached to, and I often have invasive bad memories and sadness because of the fact that shutting down was a traumatic experience, and having to leave that vessel was very upsetting to me. I feel a disconnect to my current human vessel, so I don't think leaving it will be so much of a trouble as leaving my last was.
     
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  8. AshenFall

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    This is a question I can't really give a direct answer to and not just because of my search for the "right path". Being of an easily doubtful mindset, I feel it's something I can't pin a conclusion on, no matter the beliefs and claims thrown my way. In the end, no matter how strongly I believe in something, it doesn't make it the correct answer. And so I'm kind of open to what may happen when I die and don't state any one thing as truth, be it to myself or to others. I know it could be anything, and I accept that, albeit nervously.

    I like to think we pass on to a new realm of existence, an afterlife in which we retain our memories and can meet our loved ones once again. I could try to force myself to believe that with all my heart, but even if I did deep down there's always that part of me that tells me it sounds far too wishful and idyllic to be true in any form. My mind will accept the possibility like any other one, but refuses to really see it as what could actually happen. But this is the belief that appeals to me most because if there's one thing I cherish it's my memories (well... the good ones at least). I never want to forget the people I care about and love, leave them forever. I know if I forgot I'd never know I had forgotten, but just the thought of that happening makes me feel sick.

    Which is why I think even the idea of reincarnation, although interesting, scares me a bit too. Because of the memories disappearing, or being buried and hard to recover.

    But... the conclusion my mind always jumps to as the "most possible" is the atheist view. That when we die, that's it. There's nothing, we cease to exist for all eternity. And I won't deny it, that petrifies me. I don't know why this jumps out as the most logical because it holds no basis in fact than any other theory, but as the one scientists most commonly hold perhaps that's why?

    And I guess that leads me onto the second question, only from the opposite point of view. I really wish I could say that possibility didn't bother me, but I'd be lying if I did. I know a lot of people liken it to going to sleep one night and never waking up, but that just makes me feel worse. I can't comprehend the idea of not existing, even though if this theory were true, I didn't exist before I existed. Along with the fear of my memories meaning nothing in the end, I think that adds to it. I can't feel calm with an idea I can't comprehend. I can't imagine what it feels like to not feel, I can't picture not having a consciousness when it's all I've known, they're contradictory and it makes no sense. It just rolls around in my head until it drives me crazy, so I have to stop dwelling on it.

    Even if I don't really believe it, I'd rather spend my life trying to convince myself of an afterlife than worry about other possibilities that terrify me. If only it was as easily said as it was done...
     
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  9. Charias

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    I would never say that anyone's beliefs are wrong. I have my own beliefs, but when it comes down it it, that's all they are - beliefs. It would be hypocritical of me to go and say that there is absolutely no afterlife when my own ideas aren't based in any kind of measurable fact either.

    As for what I actually believe... I don't know. I have no reason to have an opinion either way. Maybe some people get an afterlife and some are reincarnated - who knows? I only know what I remember, and that certainly didn't involve any kind of afterlife (besides the one I'm living right now, I guess).

    I'm not sure. I'm not a scientist, or a philosopher, or even someone who spends any real amount of time thinking about this stuff. All of the beliefs I have, I've reached by working backwards from my experiences. As far as my own perception goes, I know I have lived other lives. And for that to be possible, something has to be capable of moving from one body to the next, to carry those memories. Maybe that energy could get stuck in inanimate objects too - kind of like the concept of animism. I'm not sure.

    If I were to wing some kind of explanation, I'd guess that the energy that powers our consciousness isn't the same as what fuels our bodily functions and all that. But beyond that... I genuinely don't know. I don't even have a desire to know.
     
  10. forestkin

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    I think we go wherever our beliefs carry us. If you believe in reincarnation, you reincarnate. If you believe in heaven or hell, hopefully you go to hell. I'm a pantheist, so...
     
  11. Quxyun

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    I believe that when you die, you reincarnate. However, before you do reincarnate, you have the option to make deals with death as to certain requests you have, either about the life you left behind, or the one you are heading into.
    I choose to believe this because I love to see symmetry in the universe. The physical universe is cyclical. Matter cannot be created or destroyed, energy cannot be created or destroyed, why shouldn't the same be true for non-physical things? It makes things appear a lot more understandable, even in their vast confusing nature.

    I don't believe this because I don't like the idea of not existing anymore. I recognize my insignificance, and I realize that the idea of not existing anymore is a particularly cold idea, but not altogether unwelcome. (Don't read this to mean anything implying suicide please, I am not suicidal.)

    As for the natural order, I have my thoughts on this, and while they seem to contradict my aforementioned beliefs on death, I assure you they don't.
    I believe that there is no natural order in the world but that which we create. There is no over-arching justice. There is just us. I have chosen to believe what I have because that is the natural order in which I have chosen to believe in, the one which I have "created". In this manner, one can perceive a "grand over-arching justice" to be found in the world, in my case, symmetry. To quote Alan Watts, "So in this idea then, everybody is fundamentally the ultimate reality, not god in a politically kingly sense, but god in the sense of being the self, the deep-down basic whatever there is." (Life is what you make it to be).
     
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  12. Pinkdragon310

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    Ever since I was way younger (5 or 6 years old I believe), even though I'd never heard it discussed, or mentioned often, I had formed a belief about reincarnation, the belief that humans can reincarnate into animals, and that the opposite can happen too (Also that humans can reincarnate into other humans and the same with animals and other animals too), but I have a belief about souls somehow "burning out" after a while, like, after going through so many lives they eventually run out of energy, although the thought of this is a little frightening to be honest, I also belief that most or all reincarnations have a purpose, and whatever that purpose might be, you might never find out

    I actually have a theory as to why I've believed in reincarnation since such a young age, it was probably because, in one of my Fictionkin lives, someone I knew reincarnated, and I knew the reincarnation as well, and also that the reincarnation was for a specific purpose

    Also, as someone who is Agnostic, I don't necessarily believe in something like a "Heaven" or "Hell" type system in particular, partially because I believe in the reincarnation thought stated above, although, it could be possible since the same past life I mentioned previously had such a system.
     
  13. Murkrowzy

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    I had a dream that I died & reincarnated into a newborn baby. It was so vivid I think I actually died, but considering I saw my kinself's paws instead of my hand, it may not have been. I'd post the whole story here, but it's a long one. That dream made me believe in reincarnation for a long time.

    As an Atheist, I dont believe in an afterlife like a heaven or hell, or deities. I think our "souls" get reused into the universe, since the universe reuses anything (energy isnt created, it converts. similar to that). Perhaps the souls get reused into other life forms, like if a cat dies, it's soul is reused, similar to reincarnation. I think our "souls" go wherever the universe tells us (not that the universe has a conscious mind, but it follows laws of physics. more like that).

    I honestly wont care what happens to me after I die. I'd like to have my body to go to science if my family allows it.
     
  14. St Claire

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    I believe in reincarnation, and have done since before I can even remember. The one exception to this being dogs. I believe dogs go to heaven /the afterlife (not christian heaven). I guess you can think of dogs as "the end of the chain".

    I can't tell you why I believe this, but I can give you two events in my life that have reinforced my belief.

    The first happened when I was about 6 years old. My aunty had recently died of cancer. Usually Dad stayed home with us kids while Mum worked, but Mum had taken leave of absence. One day during this time Mum and Dad were walking my older sister and I to school. Dad and Sissy were walking ahead, while Mum and I trailed behind. I was thinking about my aunty, and starting to get really sad. Just as I was about to start crying a beautiful native parrot swooped down in front of me, at my eye level, its wing tip just centimetres from my face.

    The second happened after my grandfather died. I had driven to my parents house to stay for the week of the funeral. On the day of the funeral I really didn't want to get out of bed (can you blame me?). So, I was lying there, trying to pretend that I wasn't about to go to a funeral, when I felt something gently drop onto my shoulder. I turned my head and opened my eyes to see a young huntsman spider huddled on my shoulder, staring me straight in the eye. I literally FLEW out of bed. Seriously, one moment I was in bed, the next I was standing in the bedroom doorway, spider nowhere to be seen. My grandfather had been a stickler for routine and early rising, and I believe this was him getting in one last reminder (and one last laugh).

    I don't like the idea of not existing, but, I kind of already believe that I don't exist? Maybe I don't like the idea of those around me not existing?
     
  15. Amaris Matris

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    So, like from Terry Pratchett where you go to where you believe you will go, regardless of what kind of person you have been in your life or what you have done? (Minus the grim reaper (unless you believe in that))

    When you say that you meet with 'Death', are you talking about an entity that is the anthropomorphic personification of death as a force? If so, do you believe in the classic Grim Reaper skeleton holding a scythe situation or some other rendition of 'Death' as a person?

    You say that you are afraid of all of your memories 'dying' with you. This is totally normal, but what I'm confused about, is that you also say that you don't really believe in any afterlife but you try to convince yourself of one. I thought the idea was that you have to believe that you go to an afterlife for it to happen.

    Do you think that you would be more comfortable with the idea of death if you started keeping a diary or journal of your memories? That way they could keep going when you die, after all, isn't that why people write autobiographies?

    Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that an Agnostic is someone who is open to the idea of religion and spirituality as a whole, but not in a religion or holds no beliefs of there own. They could also just be someone who doesn't want to hold views on anything like that.

    And an Atheist is someone who doesn't believe in and rejects all kinds of religion and spirituality, not specifically just god/s and/or heaven and hell.
    Thanks for enlightening me on your point of view! You say that you are much happier believing that your memories are real, what did you mean by this if I may?

    Thank you so much to everyone who had replied to this thread! These are all great discussion and I apologise for not replying sooner; it's just that I have been quite tired lately and, what with study for exams, I haven't been able to reply until late at night at which point I just go to sleep.
     
  16. Charias

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    Well, maybe "happy" isn't quite the right word. It's just a lot simpler for me to believe that they're real. Makes me feel more content than if I convinced myself it was all my imagination.

    My memories aren't like dreams or visions - they feel exactly the same to me as any of my human memories do. I process them in the same way. There's no mental separation between then and now. And the emotions and sensations in those memories seem so intense and real, especially when it comes to the bonds I had with my old packmates. I still see them as family, on the same level as I do my human family, and I miss them. Same as how I miss my old dog (I had a very close bond with him; he was essentially my brother) - it's not a constant thing that's on my mind, and after so long it's easy to focus on the good memories and forget the bad, but if I think too hard about it I will end up in tears. After I remembered my last life, I spent weeks in genuine mourning for my old family. And I hated myself for forgetting them when they meant so much to me.

    So... what does it mean for me, if all of these deep, intense feelings are made up? If those memories aren't real... well, what does that say about all my human memories, that I perceive in the exact same way? Or the love I feel for my human family, if I can just make up some imaginary family and love them to the same extent? It's not a nice line of questioning to go down.

    But even more than that, doubting my memories feels like I'm betraying my old family. I'm honestly tearing up right now at the thought of that. I couldn't do that to them.

    All that from someone who didn't even believe in reincarnation five years ago.
     
  17. Quxyun

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    That is... well it's a rather difficult question, seeing as how I believe Death to be more of a force. Taking a physical form could be something that Death could do, and in that case, it could appear as a Grim Reaper sort of individual. Death is a confusing subject, especially when one begins to anthropomorphize it.
     
  18. Cedrotea

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    I'm honestly not sure what happens when we die, but I like to imagine it works kind of like energy, and so I find the idea of reincarnation to make sense. Maybe not in its original concept where you're reborn again and again until you "get it right" but just moving on in some way, whether as a soul or just energy. I'm not afraid of the idea of not being able to go anywhere else/nothing happening afterwards, it just doesn't make sense to me. I feel like some part of us, whatever that may be, goes off somewhere. As for heaven and hell, I used to believe in them, but now I find the concepts a little too black and white. Like how if you were a bad person you're chucked off to hell for all eternity, it just kinda sounds unfair and...maybe slightly like a human concept, to me. Also I imagine heaven would get boring eventually, if it's perfect and you're having a great time...forever. Life might suck a lot sometimes but challenges are what make it interesting.
     
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  19. Sandwaster

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    I think people like Jesus budah Mohammed where trying to teach us how to defeat death. I think there are two forms of death. A physical and a spiritual. I don't believe in hell but I think what hell is, is a death we can't comprehend, a cease to exist. A physical death, we are just a soul in a meat wagon.
     
  20. Xerneas

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    Because of how I view my kintypes, I believe that one soul has been through many lives in many universes. When a soul dies, it's judged by something unknown... maybe by itself! The reason I think this is because I was actually able to put an order to my undertale kintypes.

    It went
    -Mettaton
    -Storyshift Mettaton
    -Chara
    -Asriel

    I'm not sure if these were back to back life wise, but I do know they came in that order because I learned certain lessons from each. For example, in my Chara timeline, I never cared too much for my Asriel. As some sort of Karma, I became an Asriel, and actually had vague memory of my Chara timeline, and what I did.

    But that's really why I think it's determined on some sort of balance.

    I also have a hunch that this may or may not be a "Last Life" sort of area for all of us. Or maybe I'm bluffing. Maybe we all had lives like this before, where we were just humans with kintypes that wanted to learn more from one another!

    That's just my opinion, though.