Christian Wicca? | Kinmunity: Otherkin Community

Christian Wicca?

Discussion in 'Religion & Spirituality' started by Ben Miller Kilgore, Dec 25, 2015.

  1. Ben Miller Kilgore

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    Hello. I am Ben Miller-Kilgore, and have recently begun to study magick. I have no problem with magick itself, in spite of my own beliefs about Jesus and God etc., but feel guilty for practicing Wicca while still worshiping a deity that inspired it's people to oppress witches for the longest time, and was wondering if there are any other people out there that could offer some advice.
     
  2. kiror

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    People does many wrong things out there, and uses the name of another thing to justify their acts. Using the name of God, is just a way to transfer the guilt from one being that can be wrong to another who cannot. According bible, God gave us free will: if you will make good or bad use of it, the you will pay for the consequences (by going to the heaven or to the hell). So, putting the guilt of one's mistakes ("oppress witches for the longest time") on a deity (saying that it "inspired its people"), looks being a wrong thing to do.

    I expect that my words were helpful somehow,
    kiror
     
  3. Telegdrian

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    It isn't the deity itself that is oppressing witches, it is the people that speak for that deity, the priests. The goal of most priest classes is to use their supposed connection to the deity to control the other classes in their religion. It was used by the Egyptian priests, the Roman priests and is used by the Christian priests. Go to the source material and you will find that Jesus was mostly about preaching tolerance, not hate and bigotry.
     
  4. Ben Miller Kilgore

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    Go to the source material and you will find that Jesus was mostly about preaching tolerance, not hate and bigotry.[/QUOTE]
    That is one thing I noticed when reading the gospel myself, but I was to busy listening to what other people were telling me about Jesus to formulate my own opinion. Thanks for reminding me.
     
  5. Ivy

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    Infodump ahoy!

    The relationship between Christianity and witchcraft is complicated, but not entirely non-compatible. The "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" piece (Exodus 22:18) has been translated in many different ways, but the original Hebrew word translated as witch is "m'khaseph" - one who uses spoken spells to hurt others, a slightly more specific form of magic than simply "witch". Besides, I wouldn't recommend murder nowadays, seems a bit drastic.

    However! There are a few other things that make the fusion of Christianity and Wicca difficult, possibly the most troublesome being the theology. Christianity focuses on one god, a jealous god ("Thou shalt have no other gods before me" - Exodus 20:3, "Do not worship any other gods or bow down to them, serve them or sacrifice to them." - 2 Kings 17:35), while Wicca proper focuses on the worship of the Lord and Lady of the Isles, and many of its offshoots incorporate a multitude of gods. Of course, you can scratch this off by saying you're not Wiccan and are just a practitioner of witchcraft, but there is another issue...

    BANNED MAGIC. It isn't just cursing that's frowned upon! Deuteronomy 18:10-11 gives us a nice list of magic you shouldn't dabble in if you want to stay in God's good books.
    "There shall not be found with thee any one...that useth divination, one that practiseth augury, or an enchanter, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a consulter with a familiar spirit, or a wizard, or a necromancer."

    If we go to the original Hebrew so we can be as accurate as we possibly can, we have the following prohibited magics:
    • Cursing others with words (m'khaseph)
    • Channeling or communicating with the dead, spirits, or anything not of God, using them to predict the future (yid'oni, sho'el 'ov, doresh 'el hametim)
    • Cleromancy, divination using lots (qosem q'samim)
    • Divination using signs in nature - augury, astrology, etc. (m'onen)
    • Knot magic (chover chavar)
    and lastly, and obviously the most terrible...
    • snake charming (m'nachesh)
    You could also argue that Acts 15:28-29 negates all of these laws ("It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality."), but you can decide for yourself if you want to follow the old laws or not. I guess it can't hurt to be safe, but I'm not your mum/holy father.
     
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  6. Cipher

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    I feel like snake charming might be metaphorical? Just going based on the highly symbolic nature of the snake in the Bible. If not, perhaps someone should tell the snake-handling churches.
     
  7. Tyrant

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    First off I think what you are referring to is 'Christian Witchcraft', Wicca is a religion not a practice (not trying to come across as rude but I just thought this might be helpful).

    Honestly back when I was Christian I didn't really take everything said in the bible at 'face value', it has been edited, written, translated, re-written, edited again, you get the drift. You have to follow your soul on this. As a Witch myself (an Augury, but a Witch none the less) I don't see anything inherently harmful in it. Lot's of things in the bible were a sign of the times it was written in, keep that in mind.
     
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  8. Alucard

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    i would ask how you keep religion and magic separate as it resplendently says in the old testament to kill witches and those who use magic, and before some one counters with new testament Jesus never said he was abolishing the old rules, i am not hounding on you and i am not christian or Jewish but it is some what ironic in this case
     
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  9. VictimOfChanges

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    That's actually up to translation, and there are definitely instances of what might be called "witchcraft" in the Bible, as well. I'm a Christo-pagan in addition to my other paths, and a secular witch at that. There are plenty of explanations and links of how this works out on the Pagan Study Group Page.

    http://thepaganstudygrouppage.tumblr.com/tagged/christian+witchcraft
     
  10. Nyht Myst

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    Really you don't have that right, I've seen many claiming to be Christian witches, and there really isn't anyone that can tell them they can't use the term magic or witch in those contexts just because of religion.
     Nyht  
     
  11. Alucard

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    right?? its not a right to claim privilence in a bronze age book, i dont even think that the old testament God is real let alone the son is either, but i have read both books cover to cover open minded and even went as far as to look at the old old scripture and others around it, and as for it me saying its odd for a christian to be a witch is actually a decent question as to simply cherry pick the book and remove the fact it says kill witches would be idiotic and just plan stupid, now if you have some spiritual loop hole as you are a good witch or something i dont honestly give a **** i am simply bringing up to attention how what you have said is total crap in this sense and that you may want to think deeper on how you counter this
     
    #11 Alucard, May 8, 2016
    Last edited: May 8, 2016
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  12. Cipher

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    @Alucard Good thing there's sources for you to look at! The Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance have a nice website that goes over this, and analyze key passages in the Bible because of the problems that occur when you translate nuances of the original languages into English. The most notable difference between what the Bible calls a witch and what we call a witch is that when the Bible says 'witch', it is being translated from Hebrew or Greek words which specifically refer to one who uses magic with the intent of harming another person or their property; also some bits of divination as a no-no because hubris and you know, general stuff about God being the only one to know the future, but again that's not something everyone does.

    So yeah, actually, there is a spiritual loophole for good witches.

    Here's your sources:
    General Overview on Witchcraft + the Bible
    Overview of the Wicca religion + the Bible
    Exodus 22:18 Translation Analysis
    Duet. 18:10-11 Translation Analysis
    Galatians 5:19-20 Translation Analysis
    Revelation 21:8 Translation Analysis
     
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  13. Alucard

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    Well good, il add that to the long list of loop holes in a book supposedly made by God bravo (claps) I cant actually counter this other then how stupid it is that the translators messed up on this,
     
  14. Cipher

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    @Alucard Technically, no Christian believes the book was literally written by God, if that helps (and it's not like God translated it into English, that's all on the translators). We believe it was divinely inspired, which is why we give it any authority at all, but ultimately it was transcribed by humans and humans have their own biases.

    This is why fundamentalism is a terrible idea (looking at you, American South people I have to interact with on a daily basis). They're taking a translation at face value and not bothering to analyze it critically or look further into the original source material. This is where most of the problems come from.
     
  15. Alucard

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    i am not actually southern and i take it at face value because for a god to even have had it inspired is a huge insult to God, no its a flawed book i totally understand it should have no backing as most of it is just fairy tales and has been already denounced the only reason it is still strong is it has a few little riddles in there we cant destroy yet , now i dont actually care if your a magic christian wizard or not i was simply proving a point but if you taken the time to point out all the little loop holes that make your insanity sane by all means use them. and dont take anything i say as insult or directed towards use this is directed towards the religion
     
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  16. Cipher

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    @Alucard I don't practice witchcraft, I'm just dropping in as a Christian onlooker with my own input and resources for you. And I wasn't talking about you when I said southern, I was making an aside in reference to the people I've encountered before.
     
  17. Alucard

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    I know, i have met tons who take it at face value as well.
     
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  18. VictimOfChanges

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    As a Christopagan (and one raised and confirmed Catholic, at that), I've done Bible study and honestly a lot of it is incredibly tied into the culture and social norms of the time, and the book is definitely not something to be taken at face value as 100% truth and law. It's a collection of stories written sometimes long after the events had passed and thrown together at the Council of Nicea in AD 325. There's even a difference in what books are or aren't in the Bible depending on if you're a Catholic or Protestant. Beyond that, HOW many different branches and sects of Christianity are there? Each with their own interpretation of what these texts all stitched together mean?

    You're right, @Alucard in that you can't necessarily deny that it's there in the text. But you CAN decide whether or not it's relevant based on translation and history.
     
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