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I am honestly so scared for America's wellfare

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Guest FaerieForged
Nonwhite, non-straight

Also non-white, non-straight (and Trans). But I said I can pass as straight, white, and a woman (although that last one is only partially helpful). Still scared as hell. Just because you are not, does not mean we all are not.

The Black Panther leader certainly endorsed Trump, however they have also been notoriously anti-immigrant (legal or illegal). And he had only slightly better, or equal minority support to Mitt Romney from the 2012 election year. Which, shockingly (note sarcasm) is still stunningly low. And no, more minorities voted for Clinton than Trump. Women - 54% to 42%. Hispanic - 65% to 29%. Blacks - 88% to 8%.

 

The next four years are going to be.... interesting, to put it lightly. I'm more glad now that I'll be another country for the majority (possibly even all) of it.

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For everyone who's afraid now, know that the other half of the country felt exactly like you do now 8 years ago,

 

Not to be melodramatic, but no it's not nearly the same.

Myself and everyone I've talked to are not scared for some vague political scheme, for our economics, or for anything like that. We are scared for out lives and rights. I've already had to talk other LGBT friends away from suicide from fear and despair. This wasn't about politics, this was about absolute hate and bigotry winning out in the United States. Minority rights have been shaky enough lately, and that's even with focus on them.

 

Though maybe I missed it. In 2008, what issues were present that Obama spoke about, or on groups related to it, in a way that made people fear for their lives? I don't know how to word this in a way that doesn't sound snarky and sarcastic, but complete honestly I remember people being very upset and I wasn't paying attention to politics back then, so I missed a lot of that and I would like to understand the parallels if possible.

 

To everyone worrying about minority and LGBT+ rights, seriously don't. Does anyone really think he's going to oppose gay marriage (which has barely just been legalised) and take action to attack and worsen lives of minority groups?

 

Yes actually. Not as much with gay marriage, since that's honestly old hat and passed at this point. As coffeebear said, that's very difficult to do and not worth it. But worsen the lives of minority groups? Absolutely. I'm not sure why you think he wouldn't to be honest, when he's already said enough terrible things on the matter. I'm glad he's nowhere near as bad on LGBT things, but he's a racist and islamophobe. I'm actually kind of confused as to why you would think this? He already won presidency while being like that about things, what would make him care now? Plenty of politicians routinely run on and follow through with anti-LGBT, etc, politics and they continue to do so, what would make him different?

 

That also isn't even bringing up the piece of rotten hatred that is his VP. Mike Pence is extremely anti-LGBT, but most people don't even bother looking at that since Trump was great at keeping the spotlight. I'm just glad the VP has so little power, that's one of the few saving graces of the election.

 

Nothing. It would only make things harder for him and if he attempted to do anything like that, there would be riot in the streets.

 

Also just - in reply to this bit. How close do you track American politics from across the pond? I'm not trying to be rude, it's honest curiosity. Because there have been riots in the streets over things - and it's done absolutely nothing. Even heavy awareness and focus - it disappears and no one cares. Flint still doesn't have clean water, I'm still reading about new cases of police brutality frequently, the North Dakota Pipeline is a Thing that is happening, the primaries had heavy cases of voter fraud, etc. etc. It feels like little to nothing has actually changed from any type of awareness or activism perspective.

 

I'm just so confused on where everyone is getting the idea that there's truly -no risk- to minorities when someone who focused greatly on bigotry during their campaign just won the presidency. Even worse, the senate and house are republican controlled too. Like, hate crimes are still a huge issue, laws regarding LGBT rights and protections are still a huge issue, laws regarding reproductive rights are still a huge issue, islamophobia is a huge issue - like where are you all living where it's not an issue, cause I might want to live there instead lol.

My home town was very Trump - almost completely in fact. My home town was also extremely racist, transphobic, homophobic -etc. etc.. We literally had racially motivated school shooting threats and kids going to bring in bleach balloons for rainbow day - all those people went Trump and damn well support everything he spewed and would absolutely love for him to keep it up in office. Just because you guys managed to vote Trump without being a bigot doesn't change a large amount of the supporters and the general trend republican led politics follow - though really not as much these days I will say, which makes me happier since I hate how tied economic and social issues are with politics right now.

 

I apologize for this post being long, I can't figure out how to word things better right now - I'm tired and emotionally drained. I apologize profusely if I worded anything rudely against anyone here, and if I did please know it was not meant and I missed it on the rereads.

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Guest FaerieForged

And so it begins. I quietly and gently post my disapproval of the election result in a very subtle way. I make my post on Facebook about the divide in America between two political factions tearing each other apart (George Washington knew what he was talking about when he said not to form parties when he left. And we had to go and eff that all up). And I quote Sam's Speech in Osgiliath in The Two Towers.

And my far right conservative "friends" almost immediate jump down my throat and complain about the "leftist, liberal democrats" and how they just want a "safe space to cry" and the Democrats "this bad thing" and the Republicans "that holy thing" and on they go.

But I am rising above. I will not stoop to their level and banter "facts". I will not argue political drivel and argument. I will not choose a side, because sides do not solve problems, they only create problems. I will be full of light and love gosh darn it! And I am rising above.

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Also not straight among other things that put me in minority status but I stand in agreement with Ashenfall, Kakoroff, and Coffeebear about what I believe is just nonsensical fear mongering so yeah, not scared at all for my future as a citizen of this country.

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Not to be melodramatic, but no it's not nearly the same.

Myself and everyone I've talked to are not scared for some vague political scheme, for our economics, or for anything like that. We are scared for out lives and rights. I've already had to talk other LGBT friends away from suicide from fear and despair. This wasn't about politics, this was about absolute hate and bigotry winning out in the United States. Minority rights have been shaky enough lately, and that's even with focus on them.

 

Though maybe I missed it. In 2008, what issues were present that Obama spoke about, or on groups related to it, in a way that made people fear for their lives? I don't know how to word this in a way that doesn't sound snarky and sarcastic, but complete honestly I remember people being very upset and I wasn't paying attention to politics back then, so I missed a lot of that and I would like to understand the parallels if possible.

 

Well, for starters there was (and still is) a percentage of the country that thinks we have a Muslim terrorist for a president. Sure, Obama went to a Christian church, but the video of Jeremiah Write screaming, "God D*** America!" didn't really help the image Obama was trying to portray. Then there was the so-called "scandal" surrounding his birth certificate, and the fear that we were handing the country over to someone who wasn't even legally allowed to be president.

 

Also, a lot of people believe that democrats in general (the ones in power, not necessarily the voting populace) are putting real, concentrated effort into destroying this country from the inside out. For instance, during the campaign trail, Obama went to Germany and spoke ill of the US. Going back as far as FDR, the plan (according to the theory) has been to expand socialist programs as much as possible (social security, welfare, Obamacare, et cetera) and then get as many people enrolled in order to overload the system and drive America into poverty, so that the ruling elite can then hold power by controlling all the strings. Sound far fetched? Ever heard of the Weather Underground? Bombed US government buildings and a university campus or two in an effort to promote a far-left wing political agenda, published a manifesto including that very plan as well as other methods to undermine America... members of that organization worked for Obama during the campaign, and notably Bill Ayers went on to serve under Obama during his presidency. Barack Obama and Bill Ayers

 

Democrats also campaign on raising taxes on businesses and "the rich," but inflation happens, and those higher taxes that they are on the hook for get passed on to the consumers. With increased government taxes comes two options: Give up and pay more, and take a hit to your bottom line, or raise the price of the goods and services you offer so that you have the same profit margin as you did previously. Raising taxes coupled with out of control spending (both parties are guilty of that one) doesn't fix the problem, it only exacerbates it. Obama even went on record during the campaign, while talking with "Joe the Plumber," that Americans are essentially not entitled to the businesses they worked to build. "You didn't build that," a snide remark of his towards any small business owner, essentially became a threat to people's livelihoods and paychecks as it was feared that Obama would work to destroy and take everything from working class Americans.

 

There's more, but the fact that both sides use fear to keep themselves in power is an old strategy going back... well, George Washington's presidency was pretty unanimously decided, but after that, all bets are off. Neither side of this argument, liberals or conservatives, usually tries to understand or communicate with the other... they are content (most of the time) to sit in their echo chambers, telling themselves how right they are and how wrong the other side is, maintaining the division, keeping up the fear mongering and empty rhetoric, while just denigrating and loathing the other side.

 

This election? The fear and heartache democrats feel today? Half the country feels that way every election. Not for the same issues, of course, but it happens, and it always has.

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Not to be melodramatic, but no it's not nearly the same.

Myself and everyone I've talked to are not scared for some vague political scheme, for our economics, or for anything like that. We are scared for out lives and rights. I've already had to talk other LGBT friends away from suicide from fear and despair. This wasn't about politics, this was about absolute hate and bigotry winning out in the United States. Minority rights have been shaky enough lately, and that's even with focus on them.

 

Not to downplay the feelings of your friends but without going into too much detail I feel the need to say that depression and suicidal ideation isn't uncommon among republicans either. Many have felt completely alienated and that everyone hates them, sound familiar?

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Rereading again over yesterday's post I definitely came off way more.. intense than I had any intention of, so sincere apologies for that. I'm bad at reading and creating tone in text and yesterday's post seems really rude and poorly worded looking over on a new day so apologies again.

 

@coffeebear Thank you for the long and detailed answer! I forgot about a lot of the conspiracy-type theories surrounding Obama's birth and religion from that time - how I did, I have no idea. You definitely did list a lot of the fear-mongering from that time, some of which I'd never even heard of. The other side of things on this election has certainly done the same too I will say - people somehow became convinced Pence was somehow going to get mandatory conversion therapy put in place, which breaks just about every way the government works and basically everything so I have no idea how that became a thing (morbidly funny part about that - stocks in a conversion therapy group went up 58% at one point - less than $10 but still something that was invested in). I also count reversing gay marriage as total fear mongering, and really a lot of the explicit ideas of events taking place don't even fit how things work in the government.

 

Not to downplay the feelings of your friends but without going into too much detail I feel the need to say that depression and suicidal ideation isn't uncommon among republicans either. Many have felt completely alienated and that everyone hates them, sound familiar?

 

When it comes to this, the idea of alienation and feeling hated isn't the main point. While I wouldn't completely count the feelings is being completely the same when one is feeling hated simply for existing and the other is feeling hated due to beliefs, I do understand how similar they would be in cases like these (especially once you count in the psychology of how effects feel based on individual experiences and the like) and simple the fact is when one is suicidal or depressed, things like that will hit extremely hard. I did not and do not wish to discount the mentally ill on the republican side, and I apologize for it.

The main point of right what I at least was dealing with with friends and seeing others talk about and how I feel is that people are scared about is getting legal protections revoked - if they were even put in place at this point - and less about the hatred and alienation since that's honestly a constant thing anyways. Where I live, it's still perfectly legal for my boss to up and fire me if they find out I have a girlfriend and for parents to send their kids to conversion therapy. And my state is fairly progressive on social issues. That's not even get started on the weirdness that has been trans rights laws lately - that's been on a seesaw. In that case, people aren't even just scared of getting protections revoked, but of getting laws put against them like North Carolina did recently.

 

I am glad that many people in this thread are secure in their future - I really am. I think a lot of my and people I know personallys' worries are more because it's been an issue for us and I think that's very area and life experience dependent. I've had slurs screamed at my girlfriend and I just for holding hands, and I've kept track of laws like North Carolina's (like the fact that a lot of people that ended up targeted and stopped by people were gnc lesbians). Pulse is still so recent and that's been on a lot of minds this election as well. I'm sure others with similar experiences and ideals also feel opposite me, and I fully understand that many others (including others in this thread!) have likely experienced similar while disagreeing and I have no intentions of discounting those, I am simply stating where myself and some others are coming from.

 

Sorry for basically writing another book! I've reread this many times again but I'll repeat that I have no intentions of being snarky or rude. This is probably the calmest I've seen a political discussion on the internet and I hate that I was -that- person to disrupt it yesterday so apologies again! I feel like I'm still not explaining everything quite the way I'm meaning, but I hope the general point of it gets across properly.

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Sorry for basically writing another book! I've reread this many times again but I'll repeat that I have no intentions of being snarky or rude. This is probably the calmest I've seen a political discussion on the internet and I hate that I was -that- person to disrupt it yesterday so apologies again! I feel like I'm still not explaining everything quite the way I'm meaning, but I hope the general point of it gets across properly.

 

No worries! I get the feeling most people aren't here for the 3 second sound bites we'd get from a cable news outlet somewhere.

 

And no worries about yesterday (two days ago now? I'm in Japan, so it's easy for me to lose track of how many days ago something happened in the states), I'm just glad that, like you said, this is a pretty calm political discussion, and thanks for contributing!

 

As for getting harassed, I know that sucks. People are stupid and immature sometimes.

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I am quite unsettled as of late. I am seeing all these people complain and whine that their well being is in danger, and that their lively hood is threatened. All the while, the people opposing Trump are A. Rioting. B. Attacking Trump supporters outright. C. Being violent, insufferable savages beyond reason. I've seen almost nobody being violent in Trumps name, where as complete cities are going into disarray as we speak because of protesters resorting to property damage, mob mentality and other uncivil acts to express their displeasure at not getting their way in the election.

 

I personally feel expressing my political alignment would put me in physical danger more than my being homosexual, and I live in the goddamn bible belt.

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I am quite unsettled as of late. I am seeing all these people complain and whine that their well being is in danger, and that their lively hood is threatened. All the while, the people opposing Trump are A. Rioting. B. Attacking Trump supporters outright. C. Being violent, insufferable savages beyond reason. I've seen almost nobody being violent in Trumps name, where as complete cities are going into disarray as we speak because of protesters resorting to property damage, mob mentality and other uncivil acts to express their displeasure at not getting their way in the election.

 

I personally feel expressing my political alignment would put me in physical danger more than my being homosexual, and I live in the goddamn bible belt.

 

I think what you're seeing is more related to the behavior of humans as opposed to the behavior of democrats.

 

I mean, people riot for much less significant reasons.

The Sports Riot: First We Lose (Or Win), Then We Set This Sucker On Fire

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I think what you're seeing is more related to the behavior of humans as opposed to the behavior of democrats.

 

I mean, people riot for much less significant reasons.

 

You have to remember, Trump supporters are called the Violent, Racist bigots, and the Liberals claim to be lovey dovey all inclusive, tolerant people. Except the only people rioting, and assaulting people on political affiliation are the Clinton supporters. This is more than a matter of "human nature", but rather, the behavior of hundreds of supposed "tolerant and peaceful individuals", who essentially hate on anyone who disagrees with their perspective. Not to mention that people are *condoning* their behavior in a grossly mislead form of virtue signaling.

 

It seems like you are attempting to brush off the actions of those aligning similarly to you, rather than owning up to it that the people you align with are massive, intolerant, and violent hypocrites who essentially bully others to align with them. *shrug*.

 

Your words do nothing to dull the worry that I could easily be physically attacked for mere affiliation.

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You have to remember, Trump supporters are called the Violent, Racist bigots, and the Liberals claim to be lovey dovey all inclusive, tolerant people. Except the only people rioting, and assaulting people on political affiliation are the Clinton supporters. This is more than a matter of "human nature", but rather, the behavior of hundreds of supposed "tolerant and peaceful individuals", who essentially hate on anyone who disagrees with their perspective. Not to mention that people are *condoning* their behavior in a grossly mislead form of virtue signaling.

 

It seems like you are attempting to brush off the actions of those aligning similarly to you, rather than owning up to it that the people you align with are massive, intolerant, and violent hypocrites who essentially bully others to align with them. *shrug*.

 

Your words do nothing to dull the worry that I could easily be physically attacked for mere affiliation.

 

Um, I voted for Gary Johnson, though I'm happier with Trump in office than Clinton. No, I'm not trying to brush off the actions of anyone, but I refuse to malign an entire group of people because of the actions of a few of them (more on that in a minute). Not that you were! Just voicing my opinion that people riot for any reason that gives them the opportunity to do so.

 

You're right, though... of those rioting, it speaks volumes that their chosen party is one of "tolerance" and "inclusion" - until it comes to being tolerant and including opinions contrary to their own. It should be noted, also, that the rioters are apparently being paid to riot, so I'm willing to bet money there are some Trump supporters in there, too, who are just doing it to make a quick buck.

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Guest FaerieForged

@Kakoroff both sides have attacked each other. And just like in Britain after Brexit, the rate of violence and hate crimes against minorities have skyrocketed. I've lost count of the number of police reports I've read where a Muslim woman had her hijab ripped off, or a gay man had something thrown at him, or a woman had been sexually assaulted and had screamed "grab her by the p****" at her during the assault, or a Trump supporter's car vandalized, or a third party voter verbally abused for "failing their country."

The divide in the country is widening, because both sides are afraid. But what they don't see is they are afraid for the same reasons. That their rights are in danger and their lives and livelihoods could be taken away.

Both wings belong to the same bird. And if they don't start flapping in unison the bird will fall to its death instead of soar.

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@Kakoroff both sides have attacked each other. And just like in Britain after Brexit, the rate of violence and hate crimes against minorities have skyrocketed.

 

Hate crime didn't skyrocket after Brexit, just want to clear that up, it just became more focused upon due to the vote and for remainers to use it as a way to say all of us who voted Brexit were "racist and hateful", because the opposing sides certainly like to fight. The media payed more attention to it, but occurences didn't go "out of the roof" or anything. It's probably the same over there.

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Guest FaerieForged
The media payed more attention to it, but occurences didn't go "out of the roof" or anything.

Skyrocket was probably too much of a hyperbole. I was talking with one of my friends who lives in Surrey about it and she was saying that reports of violence went up around 60% within the month or so following Brexit. And I think a later statement had calculated an "official" rise by 40%. Our hate crime reports are also on the rise. Now, from a logical point that can mean one of three things. Either the hate crimes really are on the rise. The media is simply paying more attention now that it has the ability to garner higher ratings. Or there is a mix of the two. I do believe it is a mix of the two, with perhaps a slightly stronger lean towards the first point.

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I would have been fairly nervous/anxious to some extent even if Hilary had won the presidency, the Senate was Democrat majority, and the House was Democrat majority because anyone placed in a new position might decide to pull out laws or whatnot that negatively affect me or others around. (Just because someone is a Democrat doesn't mean they are saints in any regardless, if I may speak clear the obvious.) Even on a local level there is anxiety because Arkansas, even though it was a given that the winners would be conservative, it's the concern of what they are going to do now that is concerning. A number of people in the past have been working to enact laws that could/would affect women/people born with vaginas, religious minorities, non-straight people, transgender people, etc. and concerning if the new people will continue that push (and to what extent).

 

The fact that it is a Republican majority overall, a party that has a track record of pushing the hardest for laws that would/could affect me personally and people around me, yeah, naturally I'm that bit more anxious and unsure than I would have been anyway.

 

- Miushra (female, cheetah-like feline)

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As things develop in the US and with everything that has occurred since the election, I feel as though the country has become more galvanized than I can remember it ever being in my lifetime. Those whom still support Trump at this point have shown no amount of reasoning or incident will sway them from seeing the potential dangers in his actions and inactions. Meanwhile those who oppose Trump aren't heard over the campaign chants that go on to this day.

 I personally do not support Trump, even though he's president now, because I feel he poorly represents this country and those who live here, also he seems disinterested in actually doing the job, as if he only cares for the title and not the responsibility that comes with it.

 I don't know what to think about the Russian investigation, at this point I'm waiting for its conclusion so that either minds can be set at ease or justice can be served. Lately my concern has been towards the events of the past weekend in Charlottesville Virginia. I never thought I'd see something like that in my life.

Anyways, that's my thought on the matter.

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As someone outside the US, the news should really stop focusing on Trump, and more on the communities and representatives. It's not like he can do anything he wants, as we have clearly seen from other branches of government blocking his actions.

He's honestly had enough airtime.

If we are to judge his actions, we can see what he does with Hurricane Harvey recovery as an isolated example.

Otherwise, we can't really say anything, as he really hasn't done anything.

Edited by AeonFirebrand

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I think you are over reacting quite a bit here and seem to be believing allot of what CNN and the likes are saying about him. So far as presidents go, Trump is pretty mild apart from the general storm in a teacup surrounding him, the banned travel list is actually for example a fairly soft form of diplomacy used by many countries, non-citizens have no right to enter after all and that list was the same one created by Obama targeting countries supporting terrorism, none of the 10 most populous Muslim nations are even on it.

So far as I have seen Trump has never made any anti-gay, anti-trans or so on statements, so no need to get hysterical over that either. Perhaps the only ones who have anything in particular to worry about are the neo-marxists infesting higher education these days and that is less so from Trump and more from their own bad behavior over his election and everything following with the likes of Antifa and BAMN.

Obamacare as it stands probably should be dropped, it is absolutely terrible in several respects and while I agree the USA does need a system of universal healthcare, you can do allot better than that, to make things easier on the doctors and hospitals (the amount of paperwork Obamacare requires to submit a claim literally boggles the mind and is almost as bad as no healthcare) and through that the patients.

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I'm not sure how I am overreacting, clearly he's getting too much attention from the news outlets. It's not about believing what the news says, it's about how much coverage a particular issue gets. I have not mentioned any judgements on him as a president, because as I have said, there's nothing that can be used as an example.

I haven't mentioned any racism, anti-gay or anti-trans related statements, nor have I gone looking for these. I would keep judgements on these things specifically to myself because these are rather personal opinions.

The Harvey cleanup we can surely use as a benchmark for how well he handles things - this is an issue that is fully under his control, and has not been affected by anything prior. It's about as good as a test as we're going to get to a strong independent example. This will be upcoming.

That being said, the one thing I am willing to pass judgement on publicly at the moment are his reversals - this is not a Trump thing, this is something that every politician seems to do, so no one can fault this as being biased against Trump. It's ok to change your mind. It's not ok to say you've never said or done something when you have. I believe this is the issue in politics around the world. This is what makes it so funny when some politician says they have never done x y z, then you find out they have.

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Oh yeah, can agree there totally, it is the rare politician who wont use a thousand words to effectively say nothing in response to a question or find some reason to back peddle on a promise, whether they ever meant to even try for it or not, unfortunately there is a severe lack of accountability for such things and the systems are very much set up by politicians for politicians to ensure that. I am an Australian and we probably would of gone republic the last time that referendum came up except the proposed constitution was so skewed to favor politicians that even some of the most rabid republic voters could see through it.

As for the cleanup, well, all I can say is he seems to be handling it well so far in ordering the emergency services to prepare ahead of time, certainly not as big a SNAFU as Katrina was. There will come a certain point when its out of his hands however, he is rather forced to delegate how everything actually happens on the ground.

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I'm sorry to say this, Ouroboros, but a lot of what you've said is either wrong, or has been proven wrong since you posted. Let's start with something obvious: You claim he has never made any anti-trans or anti-gay statements. That is blatantly false. He is working to ban transgender people from serving in the military. His excuse about "medical costs" is completely false, and can easily be proven so. I can provide other examples, but this one is pretty damning on its own.

Second, the Affordable Care Act (which Republicans call "Obamacare" to make it sound bad) was originally significantly more comprehensive. It was weakened because Republicans insisted on various changes that would help the rich at the expense of the poor. All of the alternatives they've presented are much worse than what we have now, and result in many of the most at-risk people losing their healthcare.

I can go into the travel ban and everything too, but I'm just testing the waters for now. You should know that I am not trying to attack you. I'm only trying to present facts you may not have already known about. Last time I tried to do something like this, I got in trouble for insisting that there  is such thing as objective reality; I'm hoping it doesn't go that route again.

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