Elimination of Discord - 🗳️​​​​​​​ The Voting Booth - Kinmunity Jump to content

Discord Elimination  

15 members have voted

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  1. 1. Should we eliminate our Discord server in favor of IRC, to reduce fragmented chats?

    • Yes (explain)
      6
    • No (explain)
      9

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  • Poll closed on 05/14/19 at 03:25 AM

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We feel that we should consolidate our resources and eliminate our Discord server. The reasons for this are below. Please respond to the poll with your opinion. 

Reasons against Discord

  • Usage of our Discord server has always been low, and has been nothing but declining.
  • User data is controlled by a third party and is subject to their whim. Discord security cannot be audited by Kinmunity staff.
  • Discord is moving to a freemium model, promoting Nitro as a paid-for add-on. It is also slowly becoming a clunky game distribution platform. 

Reasons for Discord

  • Voice chat capabilities, which are not possible using IRC.

Reasons for IRC

  • Users can create and customize their own channels, using many options available to them that can't be done on Discord, without even using bots!
  • Everything is handled in-house, with open source software that has been audited by Kinmunity staff.
  • IRC has a variety of client software that can be used, including Kinmunity's own web client.
  • IRC is vastly superior to text chat.

Reasons against IRC

  • No voice chat.

Naia "Shiro" Ōkami (keybase)
Site Administrator & Founder

 

Kinmunity is supported as a labor of love by its staff team, with contributions from users all over the world. If our community means something to you, please consider donating. Donations help off-set the costs to run the site, as well as fund new features!

 

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I was never particularly fond of discord (not the KM discord specifically, just discord in general) and find IRC much easier to use. The pros that IRC offers are clearly more numerous than those allowed by discord. Particularly, IRC seems to make things far more customizable and generally allow for more freedom,  which is something I very much enjoy. As far as IRC's lack of voice chat, while I can't speak for others, I can personally say that I'm not particularly interested in using voice chat anyway, so this is not something I will miss. 


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Reasons for keeping the Discord:

-I have the app on my phone so I can check it any time to see new posts to the forum without having to scroll through previews of the posts on here

-I never think to use the IRC

-Not used to the interface, though I know I can get used to it

 

I know that both aren’t used as often, and that it’s better to have everything in-house, but the three things I would need to be inclined to switch from the discord to the IRC are:

-Easy mobile access/view (I’m fine with keeping a tab open for it in my web browser)

-The latest posts channel in the discord, same format in the IRC

-No auto-log out at all

Otherwise I probably won’t use the IRC at all.


- panthera onca -

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Some notes/input from me:

-I've never used an IRC chat, so I have no familiarity with how it works
-Discord is extremely convenient as I can jump quickly between other servers I'm in and check KM's server more regularly than if I were forced to have to access an entirely separate system; keeping all of my instant chats in the same place
-I don't really care about customization, text chat and emojis are really all I need for the kinds of conversations I'm interested in having in an instant chat format
-Voice chat (although I don't use it that often) is fun, and I know people enjoy that feature
-Unless Discord's 'freemium' Nitro starts taking away features from the version everyone can use freely, it's a non-issue for me. Just looking at the page for it on Discord, all it really has to offer is some extra cosmetic chat stuff/minor perks which, while nice, are not by any stretch necessary to function, and access to a bunch of games for gamers who want them, which has no relation to KM anyway. I haven't felt any interference from their gaming side of things on my chatting experience, either.
-I'm not really worried by the third party v. open source issue either. I feel there's enough security to prevent trolls from getting in to the server in the first place that you've already worked out, plus vigilant mods to shut down any potential misconduct that hypothetically might happen.

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i dont have a super active discord account so irc would probably be easier. and Discord is blocked in some public places (like schools) and that might not be a problem with irc 

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1 hour ago, Jethero said:

Reasons for keeping the Discord:

-I have the app on my phone so I can check it any time to see new posts to the forum without having to scroll through previews of the posts on here

-I never think to use the IRC

-Not used to the interface, though I know I can get used to it

 

I know that both aren’t used as often, and that it’s better to have everything in-house, but the three things I would need to be inclined to switch from the discord to the IRC are:

-Easy mobile access/view (I’m fine with keeping a tab open for it in my web browser)

-The latest posts channel in the discord, same format in the IRC

-No auto-log out at all

 Otherwise I probably won’t use the IRC at all.

1. Mobile view is easy enough; there are various mobile IRC clients and using a tab for the web browser should be appropriate.

Screenshot_20190429-204601_Chrome.jpg

2. Kinmunity IRC uses InspIRCd, so this is doable with a bot and the "channel history" feature. It also shouldn't be a problem of any kind.

3. This is possible with services such as bouncers or IRCCloud. Kinmunity's IRC server offers features that make disconnects less inconvenient (channel history), but ultimately the connection depends on your device as with any IRC service.


Naia "Shiro" Ōkami (keybase)
Site Administrator & Founder

 

Kinmunity is supported as a labor of love by its staff team, with contributions from users all over the world. If our community means something to you, please consider donating. Donations help off-set the costs to run the site, as well as fund new features!

 

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15 minutes ago, Cipher said:

Some notes/input from me:

-I've never used an IRC chat, so I have no familiarity with how it works
-Discord is extremely convenient as I can jump quickly between other servers I'm in and check KM's server more regularly than if I were forced to have to access an entirely separate system; keeping all of my instant chats in the same place
-I don't really care about customization, text chat and emojis are really all I need for the kinds of conversations I'm interested in having in an instant chat format
-Voice chat (although I don't use it that often) is fun, and I know people enjoy that feature
-Unless Discord's 'freemium' Nitro starts taking away features from the version everyone can use freely, it's a non-issue for me. Just looking at the page for it on Discord, all it really has to offer is some extra cosmetic chat stuff/minor perks which, while nice, are not by any stretch necessary to function, and access to a bunch of games for gamers who want them, which has no relation to KM anyway. I haven't felt any interference from their gaming side of things on my chatting experience, either.
-I'm not really worried by the third party v. open source issue either. I feel there's enough security to prevent trolls from getting in to the server in the first place that you've already worked out, plus vigilant mods to shut down any potential misconduct that hypothetically might happen.

Why reinvent the wheel? 

(Or revert to the original wheel in this case.)

Pretty much everything Cipher has said sums up my thoughts. 

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Just now, Cursedwing said:

Why reinvent the wheel? 

(Or revert to the original wheel in this case.)

Pretty much everything Cipher has said sums up my thoughts. 

The issue, quite frankly, is I am uncomfortable with any software-as-a-service model where user data is controlled by a third party and reliability of the service is completely outside of our control. Kinmunity, mostly, is a service controlled by its own operators. The only third party we have to worry about is the data center in which our server is located. With Discord, access and reliability are determined by a third party with views and policies which do not align with our own:

  • Discord does not permit unauthorized clients, per their terms of service. You are stuck in their "lock in" or you risk violating their ToS and the removal of your account.
  • Discord limits the freedom of speech of their users. Additionally, protection mechanisms cannot be applied to Discord servers without requiring users to have a Discord account. Kinmunity is capable of protecting its IRC service while still allowing guest connections without mandatory registration.
  • Discord is not transparent with user rights, and how their data can or cannot be used.

A lot of our privacy concerned users have asked us to begin phasing out Discord, which is why this poll was created. "Why reinvent the wheel?" is a correct assessment. Why are we allowing a for-profit corporation to re-invent chat, in a way that causes vendor lock-in, when there are open source alternatives that have existed for years? A quick Google search about Discord's privacy practices and their parent company's business history is enough cause for concern.


Naia "Shiro" Ōkami (keybase)
Site Administrator & Founder

 

Kinmunity is supported as a labor of love by its staff team, with contributions from users all over the world. If our community means something to you, please consider donating. Donations help off-set the costs to run the site, as well as fund new features!

 

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I... obviously don't use the Discord all that much (though I do certainly check in on it whenever there's new content) so I don't feel very strongly about it being shut down, but... I don't think I'd use the IRC. I'm very touchy about real-time chats and prefer to use something I'm familiar with, like Discord. I'd be willing to try and be more active on the Discord server, but I don't think I could say the same for an IRC - I always keep Discord open because I'm in other servers as well, and I can clearly see when someone has posted new content there (which is, honestly, the only reason I remember to check in there at all). I highly doubt I'd remember to check an IRC, or... feel much motivation to do so, really.

Personally, I don't feel strongly about the data side of things. I don't really care if Discord has access to what I've said, since... I doubt they're gonna do anything with it that would actually affect me, y'know? But this isn't something I'm particularly knowledgeable about so there's probably a lot of potential risks I'm unaware of, and I understand not everyone is as lax about their internet privacy as I am (I've pretty much accepted that privacy barely exists as soon as you've hooked up to the internet, and I don't really care aha).

Ultimately, my opinion towards this is... /shrugs/. But I'm more likely to find a new otherkin Discord server if KM's one is deleted rather than be active in the IRC, just because I'm used to Discord, it's convenient and it's comfortable.


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Posted (edited)

Personally I don't know. I use Discord to mostly talk to my friends but I have since left Kinmunity's server so... (shrugs) I honestly think Discord has superiority over most if not all IRCs mostly because most people I know use it, so it's convenient.

But in all honesty I don't really have a say on what I think should happen. I never...really had good experiences with real-time chat rooms personally so I don't know how much of a use I will use the IRC.

But, I chose "Yes" because I don't like things being scattered. There just need to be one chat area and that's that.

Edited by MariaTheFictionkin

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I don't use the discord that often, but I also don't know what an IRC is.  I'm...assuming it's an on-site chat thing?  Please correct me if I'm wrong lol.  


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I rarely if ever would use either, but have to agree with Naia that it is better to have control on your services, as third-party apps can change rules at their discretion and are not really careful with others information.  Take a look at Facebook.

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12 hours ago, Cottontail said:

Discord is blocked in some public places (like schools) and that might not be a problem with irc 

I just tried the IRC and it is also blocked by my school's web filter, as it is a chat, so it is, unfortunately, also an issue with the IRC. (At least with my school's filter, I cannot speak for other filters/schools/etc.)

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Copy of what I said on discord:

I don't use IRC, I'm not familiar with it and I'm less likely to check it. If we did move the chat I would make an effort to check it each day but I probably wouldn't be on all the time. Discord is just always open when my computer is and if anyone posts anything I'm alerted. I feel I'd be less active on IRC. Although as I said I'm not familiar with IRC at all so if I tried it maybe I'd like it but, ah, discord is just more convenient for me. Honestly I think a lot of people feel the same and I can't see switching to IRC making the chat any more active. I'm also not the best at small talk so some sort of discussion topic would be good. Whenever a discussion topic has popped up it does tend to draw people in to add their thoughts, so having some sort of question of the week type thing may help (I'd be happy to help with that if you'd like, as I'm sure most of the staff would be!).

 

 

In terms of the technical side of things, privacy, etc... I can't say too much. Those aren't topics I'm overly clued up on, but it doesn't personally bother me in relation to discord. In terms of activity, I feel that would likely be hindered rather than helped by switching, which is why I've voted no.
(The question of the week suggestion I mentioned was posted on discord by @beanjamoose )

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2 hours ago, Velvet said:

I don't use IRC, I'm not familiar with it and I'm less likely to check it.

 

7 hours ago, LunaSilvermoon said:

but I also don't know what an IRC is.  I'm...assuming it's an on-site chat thing?

 

19 hours ago, Cipher said:

I've never used an IRC chat, so I have no familiarity with how it works

We offer an easy-to-use web client for our IRC. You can test it out by visiting https://chat.kinmunity.net and we will also have documentation on commands, how to setup an IRC client, and so forth. Our IRC server supports very advanced control for text channels through both extended channel modes and our IRC services package; we also allow management through a web interface at https://services.kinmunity.net.

A guide on advanced IRC Channel management modes available to users can be found at https://www.kinmunity.net/chmodes. The real convenience of Discord is that "it's used everywhere", but that is also its weakness. It is a central point of failure if their service gets hacked or compromised in anyway. It is relying on a company that has a history of advertising and spyware (see: OpenFeint), and is taking chances that we do not wish to take.


Naia "Shiro" Ōkami (keybase)
Site Administrator & Founder

 

Kinmunity is supported as a labor of love by its staff team, with contributions from users all over the world. If our community means something to you, please consider donating. Donations help off-set the costs to run the site, as well as fund new features!

 

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I'm not in the Discord and prolly won't join the IRC cause I'm very selective about what chats I will join due to shyness and paranoia. But I do have one question. Will system members be able to type as themselves on IRC? I know Discord has bots that allow for system members to say things as themselves, and its one thing we enjoy about the Disc servers we are in.

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Just now, Addy said:

I'm not in the Discord and prolly won't join the IRC cause I'm very selective about what chats I will join due to shyness and paranoia. But I do have one question. Will system members be able to type as themselves on IRC? I know Discord has bots that allow for system members to say things as themselves, and its one thing we enjoy about the Disc servers we are in.

IRC allows changing of nicknames while still maintaining a centralized registered account. There isn't a need for bots as this is a native feature. My account can be "Naia" while many nicknames can be linked to it. 


Naia "Shiro" Ōkami (keybase)
Site Administrator & Founder

 

Kinmunity is supported as a labor of love by its staff team, with contributions from users all over the world. If our community means something to you, please consider donating. Donations help off-set the costs to run the site, as well as fund new features!

 

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My reason Is simply put, some people just Don't wanna go through IRC's effort. You could ask for a volunteer Discord Manager and condense it, Otherwise I hardly log onto the forums as it is. Sometimes the only time i check anything related to kinmunity at all is through discord. Just know there are more people like myself who might "go ghost" due to a change like that.

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I think if you embed the IRC into a highly trafficked page (and default the IRC to the main KM channel), I can almost guarantee it’ll see more use.

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- panthera onca -

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Our Discord will be kept online; we've streamlined it and removed several unused channels. Thanks for voting!


Naia "Shiro" Ōkami (keybase)
Site Administrator & Founder

 

Kinmunity is supported as a labor of love by its staff team, with contributions from users all over the world. If our community means something to you, please consider donating. Donations help off-set the costs to run the site, as well as fund new features!

 

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